American Kitefliers Association

How much do you weight? Do you think the kite would lift you in the air? Then you could fly with line rated under your weight. But the catch is, that is perfect line... no defects. My point is that you can fly kites that pull like a train on pretty light line. But you do want a higher rated line in case there is a nick or something in the line.

What type of ground do you plan on flying on? This can also determine what type of anchor you use. Why not a dog stake? I've never had one or heard of one breaking.

I am not too sure you want to follow that advise, line strength based on your weigh is gonna break and you are going to lose kites. David Gomberg should have recommendations for the kites that you bought from them. The kites you mentiond should be fine on 500lb test.
For  locking them  down to the ground, there are many ways, if you fly on the beach alot of people like the sand bags, for harder ground, there is rebar, angle iron, the dog stakes are good if the ground is not hard and the kites do not pull to hard. If you are just starting out, exercise caution with hard pulling kites, it is easier to get hurt than you might think.  Fact is there are many opnions about this subject and the best way to do it. Here is my take on it, be extra safe, if 100lbs will work then 200lbs would be safer.

Charlie, check out American Earth Anchors  http://www.americanea.com/. They make a couple kinds of heavy duty anchors (some screw-in, some not) that they were marketing to big kite fliers a couple years ago.

We've had several conversations with Charlie and made recommendations abut flying line and anchors. He's looking, I think, for new and different ideas here.

The interesting question is how to measure or  estimate lift (as opposed to pull)  in different flying conditions.

Todd, Kevin and Phil....thanks for your responses !  Perhaps my post was a little vague...the first question was really meant to ask if there is a way to actually measure the amount of vertical lift a kite or kite train generates.  If one could come reasonably close to determining that, then there would be no guessing on the strength of the line.  I did talk to Susan at the time I bought the kites, and I agree with her that 500 lb. test should be a minimum in 15+ winds, so I am going to use 750 lb. test.  Just wondering how one could get a simi-accurate measure of lift.

As to anchors, I do use a sand anchor at the beach, but the ground in Oklahoma can be really hard...particularly in the summer.  I have used the screw-down anchors that have a handle at the top that are sold by Into the Wind, (are those "dog stakes" ?) but they are really hard to get inserted in  hard ground.  I have also had them snap off at the handle on occasion, most recently at a kite festival in Tulsa in October, with a Gomberg Super Sled on the line that was not generating too  much lift in moderate winds.

I don't fly large kites much anymore, as I left those days behind with my youth, but I do enjoy putting up several at a time and tying them off at the ground.  Back in the 80's when I owned a kite shop in Oklahoma City I once put together a 150 kite train to fly at a festival and didn't think to anchor it before I put it up...spent the better part of an afternoon hanging on for dear life to that line ! Just want a reliable anchor that is easy to put in the ground and easy to transport that will safely handle a fairly large kite or a train in winds that vary from 15 mph to occasional gusts of 30+ mph.  I looked at the American Anchor site and will buy a couple of their 9" screw downs, but I think I am going to design one of my own.  When I get something configured, I will come back and post a diagram of what I am going to do and submit it for  your thoughts,

Thanks again and good winds to you,

Charlie

The interesting question is how to measure or  estimate lift (as opposed to pull)  in different flying conditions.

Uh  huh.   
I have an hanging scale that I can use in line.  I think it can go to 300 lbs.  Anyway, hook that sucker up to something strong an just try to pull it to even 100 pounds.  You might be suprised.  That being said, I use heavier than needed line on everything.  I'm always amazed by the folks who talk about flying in 20 & 30  MPH winds.  I fly mostly in beach winds and only play with ground bouncers when it gets over 15 so I really don't have that much to contribute.  I would be curious though as to what we are calling "lift" and what we are calling "pull."

That was the point of my post... but perhaps a little short.

Measuring the pull on the line is perhaps not the best way to look at the situation. As I mentioned, you would find that the pull is really not that much... you'd probably end up with a kite that pulled like a train but your measurement would only be 100lbs. While knowing how much a kite pulls might be good to know, it does not translate directly into what line you should be flying. There are many other things that come into play... even line stretch can be a factor. I have gotten away with a line that was rated about 200lbs but you could not pull the line backward as the kite was pulling so hard. This line had a _lot_ of stretch and it tended to absorb jerks that the kite made and acted somewhat as a rubber band.

So the point in my initial post was that you probably don't want to use a scientific approach to picking line... you really want to go by experience. This does not need to be your experience... it can be from others.

Also, that line rated for 500lbs... that is probably the best case scenario. In the real world line gets abraded, nicked, there are jerks on the line, there are knots, etc.  You do want some over-kill. Typically I fly with 3 lines... 200lbs, 500lbs and 1800lbs. With those lines I can pretty much cover any kite I have in any wind condition (that the kite is suited for).

If you make up an anchor system, PLEASE post photos, info, etc! I know I'm _always_ interesting in seeing what other people come up with. Personally if I'm in dirt I like a twist dog stake and will use two if I feel the need. Kite looped/tied to one and then tied off at the second one as well. That way the first stake does not bend.

Charlie, do me a favor. When you order those American Earth Anchors, please make sure you mention their ad in KITING. It's been a couple years since they advertised, and they stopped because they said they never got a single response to their ad. It'd be nice for them to get something out of it, and maybe we can get them back as an advertiser again. Thanks.

Todd:

Attached (I hope) is a rough drawing for a simple anchor, using a 1" plywood base cut 18" square.  Holes are drilled at a diagonal
pointing away from the center, and 18" rebar is hammered into the ground until level with the plywood.  In the center is a 3/8" x 2" eye bolt reinforced with washers on each side.  The idea is to attach a carabiner to the eye bolt, and the line to the carabiner with a lark's head.  Cost...plywood $5.00, rebar $3.50, eye bolt $2.50 and .50 for the washers...total $11.50.  Cheaper, of course if you buy a whole sheet of plywood.  Prices based on local HomeDepot inventory.

I'm sure there are flaws with this design, so I welcome anyone's criticism and comments.   I would have put one of these together today (should take less than 30 minutes) and attached a picture, but it's 10 degrees here with a 15 mph breeze, and I ain't getting outside to drill holes in the plywood in this weather.

Charlie##text##