American Kitefliers Association

Phil makes a great point, seek out the controlling forces; embrace the opportunity to educate them and things will be easier. On Antelope Island, not only are all kites and kite fliers welcome, the rangers out on the island will ask if you need any help transporting your gear.  When I know I am heading out there, a call to the gate house and they don't charge me to come out and fly. Point is, where ever you fly, be aware of those who surround you, invite them to check your stuff out, it will pay dividends in the long run.
My opinion goes along with what Ron has suggested; this is a money issue for the state. It will not be easy to overcome. Get to know whose running things in the more common areas that are flown. (Bring donuts every time you go out) Once an entity get’s it in their head that there is something to gain from this, it will be hard to beat. Could be that an overwhelming letter campaign might not be the answer; it could trigger an even stronger push for the new regulations. David G. knows this area and the officials who run it, I would recommend a measured, calm and low emotional response until facts are better known.

Point taken. However, in this case it appears the pressure to restrict activity is coming from further up the food chain....

David

The link in the first post that points to a FB note by Amy Doran doesn't appear to be working right now.  It would be nice to see one "official" location for everything related to this.  Pasting things into this forum discussion might be an appropriate location.



I have been reading everything I can find.  This issue is way bigger than just flying kites on the beach or in the parks.  The rules are very ambiguous and leave way too much to local interpretation - despite the stated purpose being to insure consistency.

From my reading, the annual gathering at the beach for crab fishing by my extended family could be interpreted to require a permit, insurance, and certified lifeguards.  I don't think that is what the authors of the draft intended - but the wording allows the local staff to demand it. 

A permit makes sense when an event or group wants to reserve space for their exclusive use, or when an event is so large that it prevents others from using the facilities. Beyond that, it just doesn't make sense.  They don't even have the staff they would need to process all the applications this proposal would require.

Looks to me like you have a good understanding of the problem, Kevin. Vague rules and local decision makers. You don't know you need a permit until it is too late. And of course, permit requests can be denied without appeal....

David

News article about this, Thanks Amy!
http://www.seasidesignal.com/news/local … 002e0.html

Here's what I wrote:

I am personally outraged by the Oregon State Parks Department considering issuing permits for Kite Festivals. This is the kind of obstruction that Occupy Portland and Occupy Salem are protesting. It is ludicrous to require a permit for the use of our beaches, with extra costs to organizers. Stop making more waves, & just get your job done!

Here's my answer back from Oregon Parks and Recreation:

Mr. Graeper,

Thank you for your comments regarding the proposed Oregon State Park rules on non-traditional use of parks and ocean shores.  There is a common misconception that we're drastically expanding the kinds of recreation that would require a permit. We're not. The most common ways groups of people use state parks and the ocean shore -- small traditional weddings, family reunions where no special facilities are set up, groups getting together to picnic or to fly kites and commercial guides simply passing through a park or ocean shores -- would NOT require permits.

A group that wants to use a park in an unusual way (interrupting other park visitors in the process), has always needed a permit and will continue to need one. Things like setting up a stage, charging an entry fee, selling merchandise, or being so large that they need special sanitation or security, have always and will continue to require a permit. Our old rules don't have enough specifics about things like insurance, protecting park resources, and when exceptions are allowed. The updated rules make an attempt to spell these things out, but we need to do a better job explaining when you do and don’t need a permit.

We'll be making changes to the updated rules after we study all the public comments that we have received, including yours (comments were accepted through Oct. 25). Once the changes are made, we'll send the rule back out for more public comment, probably in December.  Once the public concerns have been addressed, we will move ask the Oregon State Parks and Recreation Commission to adopt the revised rules. The Commission gets to see a summary of the concerns expressed in all comments received during the public comment period and they consider those comments as they make their decision on revising the rules.

Once again, thank you for taking the time to comment on the updated division 16 rules.  Your feedback is helpful and will be considered as we review and revise the rules in November.


Richard Walkoski
Recreation Programs Manager
Oregon Parks and Recreation Department
(503) 986-0748

Grapedad, I appreciate the sentiment of the letter you wrote, but as a parks professional I can tell you how my counterpart in Oregon read it. You started off nicely, got right to the point, wandered off into the realm of political protest (agree or disagree with the Occupy __________ protesters, but nobody in a state agency wants anything to do with them), and then closed by implying that he wasn't doing his job. Basically, he's now got the opinion that kitefliers are jerks who don't appreciate him.

I hope that other letter writers for the next round of public comments will remember that the parks employees are a) trained professionals with a fair amount of education to do what they do, b) having to deal with budgets that shrink proportionally more each year than other government agencies, c) also having to deal with fun stuff like meth labs in parks, guns in parks, protesters in parks, and little support from their superiors, and d) could absolutely benefit from someone who knows about specialized things like kites providing them with some education on the subject instead of just loudly demanding their rights.

We see a group of people flying kites. They see a strain on limited resources (parking, real estate, toilets, etc). What are we prepared to do to change their opinion of us?

Nice post, Phil.  Like it.   

The most difficult thing, speaking for myself, when considering sending letters to public officials (commenting on rules, writing your congressperson, whatever) - heck, even posting on the internet - the most difficult thing is suppressing the emotion that drove you to want to make the comment or send the letter in the first place.  The emotion is important, but such things are much better received if they are drafted like a piece of inter-office correspondence. 

Again, I echo Phil's agreement with the sentiment of the letter, but I also agree with the post-analysis.  Thumbs up to GrapeDad for commenting on the proposed rule changes, and thumbs up to Phil for providing some relevant guidance/information moving forward.

Phil and Simon make good points.  Which I would like to modify a little.

Express your concern (but keep politics out of it).  "I am concerned that I may no longer be able to...", "The rules are ambiguous to me...", "How can I know if...",  "Am I losing the right to use ...."

Assume the public employee who will receive your letter is not "on the other side".  Most are sympathetic public servants trying to balance the needs and desires of the public with financial realities and safety concerns of the greater picture. Their superiors may be heartless ogres, but they are the ones you elected, or were appointed by the elected officials, so even they may listen - not to threats, but to concerns that may also affect more citizen voters.

From the response that grapedad received, it appears that revised rules will be coming out in the next month, and comments will be needed about December or January.  I hope someone will snag a link to the revised rules so we can discuss them here.

Thanks for the info, everyone!

Post deleted, way too long. I still haven't figured out how to simply delete not just edit a post.